Misiones CAS, COIN y contra objetivos de oportunidad

Fuerzas aéreas de todo el mundo y elementos que las componen

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Re: Misiones CAS, COIN y contra objetivos de oportunidad

Notapor jupiter el Dom May 07, 2017 6:25 pm

Shomer escribió:
Orel escribió:Poli, es difícil detectar a través de bosque o selva frondosos. Recientemente están saliendo radares capaces de distinguir bien a través de las copas de los árboles y el follaje. Pero es complicado. Y sin radar mucho más. El radar penetra, rebota y vuelve, pero la radiación IR que emite lo que haya debajo no sale de debajo de las copas.


Hay un nuevo radar de IAI/ELTA especifico para ello, el ELM-2112FP, pero no es aerotransportable. Al menos no en esta etapa del desarrollo.

http://www.iai.co.il/2013/32981-48441-en/MediaRoom.aspx

Imagen


Esos montes de Israel y la selva amazónica, se parecen como un huevo a una castaña.
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Re: Misiones CAS, COIN y contra objetivos de oportunidad

Notapor Shomer el Dom May 07, 2017 6:41 pm

jupiter escribió:Esos montes de Israel y la selva amazónica, se parecen como un huevo a una castaña.


Estas evaluando el desempeño del radar de una de las firmas mas prestigiosas del mundo en ese campo solo basándote en una imagen publicitaria? :roll:
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Re: Misiones CAS, COIN y contra objetivos de oportunidad

Notapor grial73 el Dom May 07, 2017 9:38 pm

A riesgo de morir despellejado y ante lo inversomil de que la AE se dota de F35B para los inexistentes planes de futuros portaaviones españoles, ¿qué pensais sobre la posibilidad de utilizar helos tigres para misiones CAS?, en este caso RWCAS, que por cierto, le iría muy bien a la infanteria de marina.
adjunto un articulo encontrado sobre su posible uso por los australianos:


Aussie Tiger - helicopter with an Amphibious future

Selected in 2001 under the auspices of Project AIR 87 the Franco - German Eurocopter Tiger EC665 is giving the Army an impressive level of combat capability. Australia required a versatile platform to replace two existing types of rotary aircraft; the Vietnam era Bell 206B-1 Kiowa and UH-1-H Iroquois ‘Bushranger’ gunship helicopters.

1st Nov 2010

Selected in 2001 under the auspices of Project AIR 87 the Franco - German Eurocopter Tiger EC665 is giving the Army an impressive level of combat capability. Australia required a versatile platform to replace two existing types of rotary aircraft; the Vietnam era Bell 206B-1 Kiowa and UH-1-H Iroquois ‘Bushranger’ gunship helicopters.

In examining the strengths and weaknesses of the French HAP and German HHT designs against the Australian requirements saw the configuration of the Tiger ARH emerge. The resulting overall contract package included two Squadrons of helicopters, a comprehensive training system with simulators and associated logistics support.

The first four Australian Army ARH Tigers were manufactured in Europe, with the remaining 18 aircraft being assembled by Australian Aerospace, a subsidiary of EADS, at their Brisbane Queensland facility. This facility will also provide through-life support in terms of repairs, modifications, overhauls and upgrades. The Tiger was chosen because it had a future growth and development pathway over other contenders and legacy airframes.

It has ushered in the age of digitally controlled rotary aircraft, along with introducing a carbon fibre monocoque composite airframe into the inventory of the Australian Army. The Tiger ARH has produced some excellent outcomes for both the Australian Defence Force and Australian Industry. High end technology transfers, science and engineering facilities, and new skills base are such outcomes. One element is a AUS$15 million composite fibre material manufacturing plant in Brisbane which produces key components for the Australian Army Tiger and supplies the global supply chain.

The Brisbane based facility also paving the way for the construction of the 46 MRH-90 helicopter for the Army and Navy, and which from an industry perspective provides a strong argument for the replacement of the S-70B-2 Navy Seahawks, Sea Kings MK50A and scrapped SH-2G(A) Sea Sprites under Project AIR 9000, with the NH-90 helicopter.

Australian specifications and project drivers saw the Tiger ARH program leap ahead of the models being developed for France and Germany. This in turn influenced the Spanish purchase and design specifications, given that the Mediterranean climate has some similarities to that of northern Australia. Furthermore, the French Army decided to upgrade most of their HAP (Hélicoptère d'Appui Protection or Support and Escort Helicopter) configured helicopters to the HAC-variant (Hélicoptère de Combat Polyvalent or Multipurpose Combat Helicopter) and thus the former HAC Variant ( Hélicoptère Anti-Char or Anti-Tank Helicopter) was cancelled.

On the success on the Australian program, France decided to equip Hellfire missiles to its second batch of 40 aircraft. Another outcome for the Australian Government, is that if other nations follow suit as under a Deed of Indemnity and Substitution, it is eligible for royalty payments from its own successful Research and Development. This may be to the tune of up to AUS$800,000 per aircraft for full or partial capability.

The ARH Tiger’s composite airframe is made from 80% carbon fibre reinforced polymer, kevlar, 11% aluminium and 6% titanium. Not only does this mean that they are extremely strong, but they are also able to resist heavy combat damage. Its composite fibre construction means that marinisation or its ability to be based and deployed from a ship is not an issue. The suitability of the Tiger helicopter for seaborne operations that includes weapons loading, has already been demonstrated successfully by the French Navy in heavy seas.

Furthermore, the requirement for the Australian Tiger ARH to operate on a LPA has been recently tested on the amphibious ship HMAS Kanimbla. Based upon the success of these demonstrations and subject to any emergent limitations as assessed as part of the First of Class Flight Trials, it is expected that the Tiger ARH will easily be transitioned to future operations off the Royal Australian Navy’s Canberra Class Amphibious ships currently under construction.

The Aussie Tiger ARH is currently undergoing acceptance into operational service with the Australian Army’s 1st Aviation Regiment located at Robertson Barracks in Darwin, in the Northern Territory. Final Operational Capability for the Australian Army is programmed for December 2012.

The Army’s 1st Aviation Regiment Tiger ARH are to deploy on EXERCISE HAMEL 2010. EX. HAMEL is a Forces Command Field Training Exercise that will occur in the vicinity of Townsville North Queensland in early November of 2010. The ARH will fly reconnaissance, airmobile escort and close combat attack missions as part of an aviation battle group in support of Army’s 3rd Brigade.

The 1st Aviation Regiment will be deploying a Squadron of ARH via Royal Australia Air Force C-17 IIIA Globemaster aircraft from Darwin to Townsville in early October 2010. On completion of the Exercise all ARH helicopters will then return by self-deployment. During the Exercise the Tiger ARH will be firing its chin mounted 30mm gun, 2.75 inch/70mm rockets and AGM-114M Hellfire missiles culminating in a live fire exercise with the Brigade battle groups.

The Australian Defence Force and Defence Materiel Organisation (DMO) are ever conscious of the risks involved with a relatively immature platform, regardless of how innovative it appears. Defence, as a consequence of previous experiences with a variety of platforms and systems have ensured that the Australian Army is a member of what is known as the Tiger Build-up Group (TBG). The TBG is designed to facilitate networking between all current military operators of the Tiger, being France, Germany and Spain. The DMO and Australian Army representatives attended TBG 16 in Germany in September 2010.

France has sent its Tiger helicopter to support both French and Coalition forces in Afghanistan as part of its commitment to ISAF. Representatives from the Australian Army have recently observed the French Army Aviation contingent deployed to Afghanistan. This deployment has proved valuable in continuing the relationship between the French and Australian armies, and in sharing lessons on Tiger development. One outcome has been a general understanding of logistic and technical support that the French Army HAP version has in place.

One novel feature devised in preparation for the Afghanistan deployment has seen the French develop a procedure where a downed pilot could be transported by sitting on one of the rescue Tiger's main wheels. Other outcomes have been the application of a system to better filter the fine and destructive dust, and upgrades to weapons and software. Not all these developments and procedures will be incorporated by Australia. For example tactics to operate in difficult flying conditions such as flight at extremely high altitudes. The fleet of three EC665 Tigers in the HAP configuration and operated by the French Army’s 5th Combat Helicopter Regiment, have now logged more than 1,000 flight hours in Afghanistan in less than a year.

With an incredibly high availability rate of 90% in extremely harsh operating conditions, the Tiger has demonstrated excellent performance and operability levels for both reconnaissance and combat support operations. Given that Australia has forces actively deployed within Afghanistan, Aussie Tigers could be deployed there to provide support in the future. Regardless of whether the ARH is deployed to Afghanistan, valuable lessons are in the process of being learnt, which are sharpening both the teeth and claws of the ARH’s capabilities.

Australian Tiger ARH crews and those of the MRH-90 currently use the TopOwl Helmet Mounted Sight Display (HMSD) Configuration 0 from Thales Avionics. The ARH Project Office is currently in the process of accepting TopOwl HMSD 3, with the primary advantage being improved night vision image capabilities and the ability to conduct missions in a wider spectrum of night-time conditions. TopOwl displays high resolution Forward Looking Infra Red vision, symbology, and Intensified Images on the helmet visor and can be switched between modes with ease. The helmet allows pilots to fly “head-up and eyes-out” by day or night and in extreme conditions.

The Royal Australian Navy has undergone somewhat of a revolution with the introduction of its two largest ships to date in its 99 years of service to the Australian nation. Known as the Canberra Class, these Landing Helicopter Docks (LHDs) are to provide transport for the Australian Army and provide significantly greater capabilities and versatility than the current amphibious transports in the RAN. These may be called upon in a time of war, peacekeeping or disaster relief. Whilst based on the Spanish BPE Buque de Proyección Estratégica (Strategic Projection Ship) design, they have an Army centric focus. This will mean that CH-47 Chinooks, MRH-90 and Tiger ARH will be deployed aboard from time to time.

One role of the Tiger is to provide the only dedicated Close Air Support role to be installed upon the Canberra’s. The Tiger will be the principle provider of CAS, as whilst the Canberra’s are fitted with a ski ramp, Defence has not planned to carry fixed winged assets. Therefore the armoured Tiger with its 30mm chin mounted gun and load of Hellfire Missiles and 2.75inch/70mm rockets will provide the bulk of Australian CAS in Amphibious ship to shore operations in the absence of an aircraft carrier or fixed winged ship deployable aircraft,

These ships will each be able carry up to 1000 troops along with a substantial inventory of equipment. It is unlikely that this Class of ship will ever deploy devoid of an escort from the Hobart Class Air Warfare Destroyer and Adelaide Class Frigates. The protection of such skilled personal and equipment aboard the LHDs is paramount, and requires creating a protective screen and defensive bubble around these capital assets at all times.

One such way this will occur is thrugh Project AIR 9000 Phase 8, which will replace the current fleet of aging Sikorsky S-70B-2 Seahawk helicopters. Furthermore, the winner of AIR 9000 Phase 8 will be tasked with the provision of Anti-Surface Warfare (ASuW), Anti-Subsurface Warfare (ASW), Search and Rescue (SAR) and troop insertion.

The chosen helicopter type will be equipped with passive and active submarine detection as well as tracking sensors, torpedos and missiles that will assist with the defence of the LHDs and Australian Army assets whilst at sea. The eventual naval helicopter replacement will at times be deployed cross deck and be supported from these LHDs. Touted as an AUS$1.5 billion deal, the contest is currently between the Sikorsky/Lockheed Martin Seahawk MH-60-R (Romeo) and the NHI/Australian Aerospace NFH 90 with up to 24 airframes, required to generate 8 simultaneous flights at sea.

Whatever the outcome it will set the direction of ship based RAN Rotary capability for the next 30 years. An objective of Project AIR 9000 is the reduction of the overall number of helicopter types in the ADF. Logically, a single type would provide an ease of logistics with the NH-90 sharing significant parts commonality with the existing MRH-90s as operated by the Australian Army and Royal Australian Navy from the decks of the LHD.

The external physical dimensions of the Australian Army’s/RAN current fleet of MRH 90s and of the NH-90 NFH are very similar in size to those of the Sikorsky MH-60R. One item of mutual compatibility is that they are both equipped with the AGM-114 Hellfire II missile. The Hellfire is a relatively short range missile at 8 km, carrying a warhead of approximately 9 kg, it is certainly not a ship killer.

The United States Navy has 5 existing Squadrons of Sea Hawk Romeo models in place. Australia has requested approval through Foreign Military Sale (FMS) process to potentially procure 24 MH-60Rs. Both competing airframe types are still under consideration at this time.

In the future, this might mean that the Tiger ARH may provide armed escort for the MRH-90, CH-47 Chinook, or potentially MH-60R Seahawks or NH-90 helicopters ashore from the deck of a RAN Canberra Class Amphibious Ship, support the Abrams M1A1 AIM main battle tanks, cover the medical evacuations of injured troops from the battle field or attack entrenched enemy forces.

The Australian ARH Tigers are proving to be a versatile and competent airframe providing a modern attack and reconnaissance capability to support the Australian Army and its allies from the sea or the land when required.



Aquí la fuente

http://www.asiapacificdefencereporter.com/articles/92/aussie-tiger-helicopter-with-an-amphibious-future

Los mayores problemas técnicos que veo serían el plegado de las alas, el tema del material anticorrosión para un entorno marino, y el tren de aterrizaje, pero se podría afrontar un proceso de navalización junto a Francia y, por supuesto, Australia.
''Casi todos podemos soportar la adversidad, pero si queréis poner a prueba de verdad el carácter de un hombre, dadle poder.'' Abraham Lincoln
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Re: Misiones CAS, COIN y contra objetivos de oportunidad

Notapor grial73 el Dom May 07, 2017 10:02 pm

Siento el oof topic ahora veo que estoy en el hilo de fuerzas aereas, acabo poniendo un articulo sobre el Ka-52-Ka como helo de ataque navalizado:


Ka-52K Katran Helicopter, Russia

Ka-52K Katran Helicopter

Ka-52K Katran Helicopter is a ship-based version of the Ka-52 Alligator reconnaissance and combat helicopter, which is under production for the Russian Armed Forces.

Designed for operations aboard the French-built Mistral-class amphibious assault ships, the helicopter is being manufactured by JSC Russian Helicopters.

The helicopter can be deployed in combat, target acquisition and designation, maritime patrol and convoy escort missions.

The first Ka-52K prototype made its maiden flight in March 2015 and was displayed at International Maritime Defence Show (IMDS-2015) in July 2015. Russia signed an agreement with Egypt for the delivery of 46 Ka-52K ship-based attack helicopters in December 2015.
Ka-52K helicopter design and features

The new ship-borne Ka-52K is based on the airframe of the Ka-52 Alligator, which itself is a modified variant of the Ka-50 attack helicopter. The fuselage is covered with resilient anti-corrosion coating and is fitted with folding blades and wings.

The equipment and systems of the helicopter have been modified to suit naval operations.

The rotor system is equipped with elastomeric bearings in blade-mast joints for higher take-off weights. The helicopter complies with the latest Russian and international standards for technical operation of military helicopters.

The helicopter features an advanced glass cockpit, which accommodates two pilots in side-by-side layout. It can be operated by either pilot and is equipped with advanced avionics and powerful weapon systems, which can be configured for different roles.

The onboard avionics with the use of radio equipment and satellite navigation ensure autonomous landing on the ship deck, and the onboard equipment further makes the helicopter a network-centric system for interaction between the Navy and Air Force.

The helicopter is also integrated with an air-conditioning system for conducting missions in the humid marine atmosphere.
Sensors / radars

The Ka-52K is equipped with a laser-beam guidance system and Okhotnik video processing system developed by KRET.
"The helicopter can be deployed in combat, target acquisition and designation, maritime patrol and convoy escort missions."

Okhotnik provides the helicopter with increased range of detection and identification, while the auto-tracking stabilises the video field on the target and transmits a digital error code in case of a mismatch between the display coordinates and the line of sight.

The onboard Arbalet radar system allows the helicopter to effectively perform combat missions even in environments exposed to electronic jamming. The helicopter can detect hostile vessels at a range of 200km.

The ship-based helicopter is equipped with Vitebsk defence system, SAU-800 automatic control system and GOES-451 gyro-stabilised optronic station.

The SAU-800 enables the pilots to operate the helicopter in manual, automated, and automatic control modes. It is integrated with the SIVPV-52 data recording and processing system developed by Radioelectronic Technologies.
Ka-52K weapon systems

The helicopter carries a 2A42-1 30mm automatic cannon and high-fragmentation, explosive incendiary, or armour-piercing rounds.

The gun has a maximum rate of fire of 550 rounds a minute and can engage light armoured targets within the range of 1,500m, soft-skinned targets and infantry at ranges up to 4,000m, and air targets flying at low altitudes.

The Ka-52K is also capable of launching Kh-31 and Kh-35 air-to-surface missiles, similar to carrier-based MiG-29K/KUB multipurpose fighter jets and Sukhoi Su-33 (Flanker-C) aircraft.
Engines and performance

The power-plant integrates two VK-2500 or VK-2500P turbo-shaft engines developing a maximum take-off power of 2,400hp each. The engines provide a maximum speed of 300km/h and cruising speed of 260km/h.

The helicopter has an operational ceiling of 5,500m and can climb at a maximum rate of 16m/s. The practical and ferry ranges of the rotorcraft are 460km and 1,100km respectively.


Las negritas remarcan los aspectos a tener en cuenta sobre el posible uso de helos embarcados tigre y sobre todo los cambios que se deberían llevar a cabo en el caso de que se navalizasen.

La fuente:

http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/ka-52k-katran-helicopter
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Re: Misiones CAS, COIN y contra objetivos de oportunidad

Notapor jupiter el Lun May 08, 2017 8:38 am

Shomer escribió:
jupiter escribió:Esos montes de Israel y la selva amazónica, se parecen como un huevo a una castaña.


Estas evaluando el desempeño del radar de una de las firmas mas prestigiosas del mundo en ese campo solo basándote en una imagen publicitaria? :roll:


Estoy diciendo que ese radar, sea quien sea el que lo desarrolle, puede ser muy útil en entornos de bosque mediterráneo, pero sera totalmente inútil en entornos como la profunda selva amazónica, que es donde se esconden las guerrillas como las FARC.

Y eso va a ser así, independientemente de que la compañía que desarrolla el radar, sea israelita, usa o marciana.
A lo mejor es por eso que Colombia intentaba localizar a la guerrilla con medios ELINT,COMINT, con medios FLIR o con tropas infiltradas en el terreno, pero nunca con radares aéreos, todo ello a pesar de la enorme ayuda USA que recibía para combatir a la guerrilla.
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Re: Misiones CAS, COIN y contra objetivos de oportunidad

Notapor poliorcetes el Lun May 08, 2017 8:49 am

Por una parte, los radares de detección de personas HASTA DONDE SÉ funcionan desde tierra. El radar tiene que estar inmóvil para detectar los lentos movimientos de objetivos pequeños y no muy reflectantes. En eso los pioneros fueron los rusos, pero tampoco tengo noticias de que los hayan adquirido a cientos.

Por otra, el tigre es un muy buen medio CAS. El mejor que tenemos para no pocas situaciones, aunque no sea el mejor posible, claro. Volarlo cuesta lo que cuesta.
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Re: Misiones CAS, COIN y contra objetivos de oportunidad

Notapor Shomer el Lun May 08, 2017 11:13 am

jupiter escribió:Estoy diciendo que ese radar, sea quien sea el que lo desarrolle, puede ser muy útil en entornos de bosque mediterráneo, pero sera totalmente inútil en entornos como la profunda selva amazónica, que es donde se esconden las guerrillas como las FARC.

Y eso va a ser así, independientemente de que la compañía que desarrolla el radar, sea israelita, usa o marciana.
A lo mejor es por eso que Colombia intentaba localizar a la guerrilla con medios ELINT,COMINT, con medios FLIR o con tropas infiltradas en el terreno, pero nunca con radares aéreos, todo ello a pesar de la enorme ayuda USA que recibía para combatir a la guerrilla.


Has leído información sobre el sistema? Cuando ha aparecido? Donde lo han presentado? Donde lo han probado? Cual es su performance?

Porque tus comentarios son tan poco relevantes como ese de que la guerrilla de las FARC opera en entornos como la profunda selva amazónica, cuando aquí mismo en este foro he comentado especificamente en que zonas de Colombia operan las FARC y el ELN, y NO precisamente lo hacen en la Amazonia.. como tu dices.
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Re: Misiones CAS, COIN y contra objetivos de oportunidad

Notapor jupiter el Lun May 08, 2017 11:32 am

Shomer escribió:Has leído información sobre el sistema? Cuando ha aparecido? Donde lo han presentado? Donde lo han probado? Cual es su performance?


No, pero seguro que tu si, y por eso sabes que es eficaz en entornos como el de una selva tropical, para detectar gente que se esconde debajo de la maleza de los arboles :mrgreen:

Shomer escribió:Porque tus comentarios son tan poco relevantes como ese de que la guerrilla de las FARC opera en entornos como la profunda selva amazónica, cuando aquí mismo en este foro he comentado especificamente en que zonas de Colombia operan las FARC y el ELN, y NO precisamente lo hacen en la Amazonia.. como tu dices.


Para relevantes los tuyos, que a una pregunta de como se hace para detectar gente en una selva tropical, posteas una foto de un radar diseñado para detectar gente en un bosque mediterráneo.
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Re: Misiones CAS, COIN y contra objetivos de oportunidad

Notapor poliorcetes el Lun May 08, 2017 12:13 pm

Hasta donde yo sé, estos radares son defensivos y estáticos, como apoyo a defensa de perímetro
Nunca digas que éste es mi último sendero
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Re: Misiones CAS, COIN y contra objetivos de oportunidad

Notapor Shomer el Lun May 08, 2017 12:29 pm

poliorcetes escribió:Hasta donde yo sé, estos radares son defensivos y estáticos, como apoyo a defensa de perímetro


Este de la IAI (en esta versión) apareció solo hace un par de meses atrás y se supone que es único por su rendimiento. Llevan años desarrollándolo y mejorándolo, y lo han trasladado a Brasil (aprovechando LAAD 2017) y lo han probado allí en zona de alta densidad forestal. Obviamente su rendimiento cae cuanto mas densa es la capa (lo reconoce el fabricante), pero aun así parece tener características nunca vistas antes.

No es un simple radar de valla fronteriza de esos a los que estamos habituados.
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Re: Misiones CAS, COIN y contra objetivos de oportunidad

Notapor Orel el Mar May 16, 2017 10:04 am

Sin novedad, la USAF elige para su prueba de OA-X de este verano el T-6 Texan II, el Supertucano y el Scorpion. Creí que entrarían el PC-9 o el PC-21 pero no.
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... de-437271/
http://m.aviationweek.com/defense/scorp ... ttack-demo

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Re: Misiones CAS, COIN y contra objetivos de oportunidad

Notapor poliorcetes el Mar May 16, 2017 2:26 pm

Los pilatus no tienen capacidad de carga ni crecimiento posible para la misma. No dan la talla

Hubo quien comparó el "concurso" actual con el perfil de vuelo de un P-47. Grosso modo tienen razón
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Re: Misiones CAS, COIN y contra objetivos de oportunidad

Notapor Orel el Mar May 16, 2017 4:35 pm

Pues p.ej. en la fuerza aérea mexicana esas Pilatus son su única fuerza de combate. Si es como dices, están aún peor.

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Re: Misiones CAS, COIN y contra objetivos de oportunidad

Notapor poliorcetes el Mar May 16, 2017 6:24 pm

Mira sus especificaciones. Ya me dirás

De todas formas, Méjico NO necesita nada así, estando como está
Nunca digas que éste es mi último sendero
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Re: Misiones CAS, COIN y contra objetivos de oportunidad

Notapor Shomer el Mar May 16, 2017 7:13 pm

Orel escribió:Pues p.ej. en la fuerza aérea mexicana esas Pilatus son su única fuerza de combate. Si es como dices, están aún peor.


Están como quieren estar Orel.

Si no han invertido en desarrollar sus fuerzas armadas es porque no han querido. Sencillamente se consideran un país pacifico y libre de enemigos externos, y saben que con el vecino que tienen en el norte están mas que cubiertos incluso de una invasión extraterrestre, que seria lo mas cercano a una guerra con un enemigo externo que podría vivir un país como México.

Sus problemas graves son internos, y es allí en donde ellos invierten en seguridad.
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